Transcript
TG:Hello, my name is Tiffany Granfors. I’m pleased to be here today with you, Jerald Jordan, otherwise known as JJ. The world doesn’t associate you with just sports; there is so much more to you, as you have quite a rich life. I’m pleased to be here so thank you for the opportunity to chat with you today. Before we proceed, I’d like to ask about the hat you’re wearing today.
JJ:well, I’ve gone through chemotherapy twice in the past month, so I’ve lost my hair. The only reason I wear my hat is because without hair, I get cold easily, losing plenty of heat through my head. Once I start feeling cold, I put on my hat, which I will do later on during this interview.
TG:Okay, feel free to adjust your hat – you look great either way!
JJ:Thank you.
TG:I’d like to start by asking where you were born and raised.
JJ:I was born in a small town in Michigan, Roseville, which is about three miles northeast of the Detroit city lines.
TG:Where did you attend school?
JJ:Well, that depends. I was born hearing so I attended public school. I then became deaf due to spinal meningitis. Later, I attended a Lutheran school for deaf children in Detroit, which is only a grade school that ends at eighth grade. For high school, I attended public school, which I suppose you’d call mainstreaming as we didn’t have that label back then. I attended public school without interpreters and I did alright. My mother heard about Gallaudet and discovered that if one wanted to attend Gallaudet, one had to take exams, which meant I’d have to attend a deaf school. She conceded in sending me to Michigan School for the Deaf, for one year. I passed the Gallaudet exam when I was in 11th grade so I went straight to Gallaudet, and to this day, still don’t have a high school diploma.
TG:That’s interesting. So you entered Gallaudet; tell me more about Gallaudet. I’m sure Gallaudet back in the 1940s – you entered Gallaudet in the 1940s, correct?
JJ:I enrolled in the fall of 1943, yes.
TG:1943 and today is a huge difference.
JJ:Oh yes.
TG:Could you share your experience?
JJ:Okay, now you have to imagine only the front part of the current Gallaudet campus, the area from Ole Jim to Florida Ave. That was Gallaudet.
TG:Wow.
JJ:Beyond that, it was all farmland. All the men lived in College Hall, which was both the dorm and a classroom building. All the women lived in Fowler Hall. There was also another classroom building behind Chapel Hall, which no longer exists. No, maybe it was further down, but it was still in that area, this classroom building and the power plant, which both no longer exists. It was wartime, so we traveled by train rather than by plane. In Washington, DC, we transported by streetcar, and not so much by bus. There was a nice streetcar stop right in front of Gallaudet at the 8th Street gate, making it easy to get around. There was rationing at the time, but there weren’t issues with food at Gallaudet due to the farm on campus. We had cows so we had milk. There always seemed to be sufficient food, not so much of a hardship. Classes were small with a small group of faculty. I can’t recall the number but I’m sure it wasn’t more than 300, perhaps less than that. In those days, I would estimate that more than half of the class were late-deafened like me, becoming deaf after seven years old. Many others were from deaf families, in addition to several hard of hearing individuals. We were all fluent signers, however. I think all graduated from a deaf school, with the exception of one or two from public schools.
TG:When you look at the culture at Gallaudet back then and today, do you see any similarities or differences?
JJ:Oh boy, yes, quite different. I’d say during my time, Gallaudet students were inclusive, with the sense of a family regardless of your deafness or educational background. Once at Gallaudet, we were all one family and united. Today, that doesn’t seem to hold true from what I’ve seen. It appears to be much more exclusive, which is sad. Sign language was never discussed, whether it was ASL, combined method, simultaneous communication, and all those varieties. It was just sign, period. Whether they were hearing or deaf, faculty signed. I don’t label it ASL – they just signed. The whole point was having communication carrying ideas from person to person. Whether a method was better wasn’t a concern because as long as we understood each other, that was it. Nowadays, it seems deaf culture... we had deaf culture, we had plays at Gallaudet, we had literary societies, we had movie clubs, fraternities and sororities and all those different things. We had deaf culture but that was a way of life rather than a way to keep others out. You want to be inclusive. It was easier in those days and better... but what do I know?
TG:Tell me where you met Shirley, your wife- at Gallaudet?
JJ:Oh, that’s a big jump. Yes, I met her at Gallaudet, but not as a student. We both began teaching at Gallaudet in the same year, although we didn’t meet until later.
TG:So after you graduated from Gallaudet, you began teaching at Gallaudet?
JJ:No. I never planned to become a teacher.
JJ:My major was Chemistry but I couldn’t find a job after graduating in 1948, due to the end of the war and the return of servicemen. Jobs were taken by them. I couldn’t get a job in my field so I went back to my old trade, printing. I did that for ten years.
TG:You were a printer for ten years. How did that lead to your teaching experience at Gallaudet?
JJ:I was a printer in Washington, DC; I had moved back to DC from Michigan after graduation because I had more friends here. I worked at different newspapers here and still had friends on campus, one of whom taught Prep Science. I was informed that they needed help and I was persuaded to come and teach Prep Science. I said it wasn’t my thing, but my friend told me to at least try. I told myself to give it a try for a year and if I didn’t like it, I could return to printing. Thirty-two years later, I was still there.
TG:Wow. So you enjoyed teaching?
JJ:Yes, I did.
TG:Great. I’ll move on to a different subject now. You are well known and often associated with deaf sports. Were you involved with sports in high school?
JJ:In high school, no.
TG:Were you involved with sports at Gallaudet?
JJ:I tried a couple different sports, like wrestling and swimming, but I wasn’t good at either sport.
TG:What attracted you to deaf sports, then?
JJ:I always enjoyed sports. For example, during basketball season, I’d always be there as a scorer. For track, I’d be a timer. For baseball, I managed the team at Gallaudet. I’ve always been interested in that aspect but was never a good athlete.
TG:So you were always interested in deaf sports. What was the turning point in your deaf sports career that led to your involvement in international deaf sports?
JJ:I imagine that would be when I was involved in what was formerly the AAAD, American Athletic Association of the Deaf, now known as USADSF. That was the biggest sporting event back then, the nationwide basketball tournament. I’d attended a couple tournaments because I enjoyed watching basketball. I was the scorer for the DC team. I attended a business meeting and became fascinated. I told myself, I could do that so I ran for office and surprisingly got the position. I became an officer for AAAD and one thing led to another.
TG:So you started being actively involved with AAAD by becoming a representative for the United States.
JJ:That’s correct.
TG:How did you then move up to the international level?
JJ:Well, I have to go back a long way. In 1957, the Deaflympics was in Milan, Italy. AAAD then decided to become involved with Deaflympics. Prior to then, it was all the work of one man, S. Robey Burns. He was the one who worked hard to bring athletes to Europe. AAAD wasn’t interested in redirecting their focus from US basketball and softball. Before Milan, so that means 1957... correct, 1957. So in 1953, the Deaflympics must have been in Brussels. This was the first time basketball became a Deaflympics sport. The US didn’t have any teams aside from a few track & field individuals, but wanted one more team, so Burns was asked to assist with this. He gathered athletes to play basketball and they basically became a pick-up team. They lost. They lost badly, of course, considering they never played together before. So now you can’t say the US never lost in a basketball tournament at Deaflympics, because they did! That wasn’t a formal team, however. Anyway, their loss embarrassed AAAD, who then sent a team to Milan. Another deaf man arranged a charter flight and they went to Milan, but I wasn’t part of the trip. They returned, having won easily. The famous Nutt Brothers of basketball just squashed everyone. To make a long story short, there were questions concerning the trip’s finances, such as extra perks and bringing along spouses at no extra cost, and so on. For the next Games in 1961, AAAD decided to establish a formal committee to send the team to Deaflympics. Art initiated this committee. I was selected to serve on the committee as a treasurer; I suppose this was perhaps because I have a honest face! That’s where it all began.
TG:Then in 1965, if I understand correctly, the United States hosted the Games in Washington, DC, and you were involved as the chairperson. That’s a big highlight.
JJ:I would agree, yes.
TG:Could you elaborate?
JJ:Let’s see, 1961... that was my first experience abroad; I’ve never been out of the States prior to 1961. When we were there, I attended a business meeting and I didn’t understand a single sign. I had no clue what they were discussing. Burns proposed that the US become the host for the 1965 Games, at Gallaudet in DC. This was easily passed. When we returned home, AAAD learned that we won the hosting responsibilities and said, “JJ, you do it.” I proceeded in establishing a committee, with wonderful people. We had wonderful leaders in those days. Tom Berg, Leon Auerbach, Dick Phillips, and many more. They all made my job easy, and we had the entire campus to ourselves, with every athlete sleeping at Kendall Green. Sports, however, couldn’t be hosted at Kendall Green. The track wasn’t in the appropriate conditions as it was built with cinder blocks and wasn’t wide enough. We instead went to the University of Maryland. As for swimming, we didn’t have a pool large enough, so we went to Potomac Park. We moved shooting events to Marine Corps Base Quantico. We were spread all over. Thank goodness we had military people who took on the responsibility of transportation, using military buses for the athletes. This truly made the difference between success and failure there, in my opinion. It all turned out quite well. During the Congress in Elstad Auditorium at Gallaudet, someone nominated me for the Executive Committee, but the secretary, Drosso, firmly stated “no” because Burns was on the committee and there was a limit of only one member per nation. I didn’t mind as I was flattered by the nomination. Two years later in Berchtesgaden for skiing, Burns stepped down due to ongoing heart conditions and submitted my name without my knowledge. So, that was it.
TG:During the Games in 1965, which dorms did the athletes sleep in?
JJ:Peet. What do they call that building where the organizations are located, across from Peet?
TG:Across from Peet... a dorm across from Peet... SAC?
JJ:No, this building is no longer a dorm, now it is for student organizations – that’s north, I mean further down.
TG:Ely Center... Ely Center?
JJ:Ely, yes. That’s it, Ely. That used to be a men’s dorm. Peet... I doubt they used College Hall, no longer a dorm. They used Kendall School. The Russians stayed at Kendall School, separate from us.
TG:The 1965 Games must’ve been successful, with international recognition for you, and bringing you into the Executive Committee.
JJ:Yes. One thing that made the Games notable was the fact that it was run by the deaf. During most of the prior Games, deaf people participated but hearing people ran the Games. This Games was run by ourselves, with no hearing people involved except for the military people who saved our lives with the transportation!
TG:Yes, transportation is always important in every Deaflympics Games, I can relate! So once you became part of the Executive Committee, you were promoted to president of CISS in 1995? No-
JJ:195, oh boy!
TG:When did you become president?
JJ:Four years later, in 1971.
TG:That’s impressive- once you were selected to serve on the Executive Committee, you almost immediately became the president. Your term lasted 24 years, correct?
JJ:Yes, I believe that’s correct.
TG:That was a long time. So while you were president, you were a globetrotter. What were the highlights of your time as president?
JJ:There are so many. Excuse me a minute, I need to stretch. I suppose a highlight was when we succeeded in bringing a president of IOC to our Games in 1981.
TG:Yes, that’s great.
JJ:That is an interesting story – if you have the time?
TG:OF course!
JJ:As the president, I always sent a letter to the president of IOC, inviting them to our Games and I’ve always received a formal reply declining our invitation, stating conflicts. We’ve never succeeded in bringing one president, until Samaranch became president. I sent in the usual letter and he responded, stating interest in attending our Games. I was speechless! I wasn’t sure of the protocol regarding flights, meals, and lodging expenses and whatnot, we had no idea of the proper procedure. After asking around, I was told the IOC would cover his flight and we were to cover lodging, meals, and transportation during his stay. Alright with us. Germany was quite efficient in organization; they had a line of BMW cars for their official cars, and they gave me one BMW car with a deaf professional driver. I informed them we’d need to pick up Samaranch at the airport, far from Köln, but I forget exactly where. After figuring out the logistics, we had to find an interpreter – there weren’t interpreters at the time. We found a hearing coach, a CODA and we borrowed him from the US team for an afternoon. We went to the airport and waited. Samaranch then arrived with an entourage, he was never alone and he always had two young female aides, always. We met and I introduced myself. He appeared to be a bit awkward, because of the signing and he probably didn’t know what to expect. We went to my car and sat in the back, with the CODA in the front passenger seat. I chatted with Samaranch, explaining about the Deaf Games and the upcoming Opening Ceremonies. The car drove so smoothly, and I happened to look at the driver – we had an Autobahn, you know Germany – and I realized we were at 200 kmph. Wow, it sure didn’t feel like it! I told Samaranch to look at the speedometer and his eyes became big. I then informed him that the driver was deaf and his eyes about popped out! Maybe that helped.
TG:Understood!
JJ:He always remembered that drive but talked more often about the Opening Ceremonies. He was very impressed with the Opening Ceremonies because we had bad weather. As athletes lined up and marched onto the field, a thunderstorm was brewing, and it began pouring. We tried to get athletes off the field, but they stayed put and endured the rain. Samaranch was impressed and stated, “Wow, they’re strong and disciplined!” I thought, “Oh no, they aren’t!” After a few minutes, the rain stopped abruptly, and a beautiful rainbow came out. Samaranch would often refer to that whenever we met, he’s recalled the rainbows. It was wonderful.
TG:That’s nice. I understand that you had a close relationship with Samaranch over the years?
JJ:I have great respect for him, yes.
TG:He has great respect for you as well! Really nice to have a connection between the president of IOC and the president of Deaflympics, that’s a nice symbol.
JJ:Yes. We were always able to speak openly with each other. He was very nice and always a courteous man, but not the type to sit down and have a beer together. That’s unfortunate! I would’ve liked to have him as that kind of friend.
TG:Tell me about your Olympic Medal of Honor, if I stated that correctly, the Olympic Medal of Honor?
JJ:The Olympic Order.
TG:The Olympic Order, that is a high medal honor that the IOC doesn’t just dole out. They give that honor to a person who is recognized for their hard work towards sports. You are the only person in deaf sports to receive this honor, and that is special.
JJ:I still don’t know how I got it. It was a huge surprise because normally that honor goes to, for example, the chairperson of the Olympic Games, or a famous athlete like Jean-Claude Killy. They gave one to... unfortunately, I forgot his name now, but he was a TV person who filmed numerous Olympics Games, he got one. Those kinds of people receive it and that’s typical, but a deaf person? That was a surprise. I think I was the first “handicapped” person to get this. Later, the president of the blind athletic group received the Olympic Order too, after me. It was a big honor and a huge surprise. I’m only disappointed that I didn’t get the award from him, I got it from... USOC, a woman...
TG:Anita DeFrantz?
JJ:Right, Anita DeFrantz gave me the award on his behalf at a USOC meeting.
TG:But that’s quite an honor and I do think it was an appropriate honor.
JJ:Thank you.
TG:I’m curious about the comparison of Deaflympics back then and the Deaflympics today. Are they the same or different?
JJ:Sports is sports! Today is bigger. There are more athletes involved and more sports involved.
Equipment is much better today than before. Conditioning is much better today than before, but we still haven’t improved much.
TG:In terms of what?
JJ:Performance. I don’t think – I mean, we have broken world records, but those records don’t come close to hearing world records. Today, we still don’t have a four-minute miler. Why? You’d think after all these years, where there is improved training and conditioning, we’d see major improvement. It seems to me that one major improvement is in swimming, but not so much in track. It’s disappointing to me, why aren’t we on the same level? We say we’re equal, but we still aren’t on the same level. Do we not have the burning desire? Is that the difference? I don’t know – all I know is that we should and could be much better, but we aren’t.
TG:Do you see changes in leadership, comparing your time and today? I mean in general as in within the members and within the upper level.
JJ:Some, yes, but not such a big difference. As you age, you tend to reflect on the past and think, “We were better back then,” which I’m trying not to do. I have to admit there were wonderful leaders then like Drosso, Rubino, Sondergaard, and more. I don’t see as many people standing out now. Maybe... maybe it’s the same problem we have in deaf society in general, with the exclusivity and fragmentation. We used to have deaf clubs but that’s gone now. Perhaps it’s the same concept in the sports world, as well. On the other hand, I would look at people during Congress and I’d see the same delegates, the same faces every two years. If I went to WFD, World Federation of the Deaf, I’d again see the same faces. People going back and forth between the two events. The US didn’t do that; we separated social and sports events but for the others, the two overlapped. Nowadays, there seems to be more separation of the two. It’s not bad, they’re doing well... but we still could be doing much better. As a volunteer organization, perhaps there are limits.
TG:One more comparison I’d like is the relationship with IOC back then and today.
JJ:I’m not in the loop regarding that; I only know what I’m told or what I see in meetings and during discussions. However, it appears that during my days with Samaranch, we had a good, close working relationship. We’d write letters... today, you’d email but back then we wrote letters complete with stamps, and I’d ask for meeting dates and he’d agree to this. We’d meet and have a sit-down to go over various points and reach agreements. That doesn’t seem to be happening now. From what I hear, there’s less direct contact between the ICSD and IOC in the upper level. Now it’s more bureaucratic contact within the lower levels, which isn’t healthy, but I don’t know how to solve that. I suppose it all depends on who’s running the show and new presidents have their own styles. Samaranch was a humanistic person; he wanted everyone involved in sports, including deaf people. Maybe that’s not true anymore, I don’t know.
TG:Do you recall your comment about your first time abroad and not understanding Universal signs? Now you’re fluent! How’d you learn?
JJ:Two words: Francesco Rubino. He was the Italian member of the Executive Committee. In fact, we both competed for president of CISS. He was the master of
Gestuno – he actually invented Gestuno. It was his dream to develop a Gestuno dictionary but there was never enough money, and back then you’d have to take photographs and print them, which was expensive. It’d be easier today with DVDs. Anyway, I just watched him.
TG:And you’re doing well! You’re quite fluent. Everyone would prefer to watch you during Congress...“I want JJ on stage!” So you must be that good.
JJ:I just soaked it up from watching him. Anyone could understand him. He just had it and I tried to copy him.
TG:Could you give me an example of Gestuno?
JJ:Nope, I can’t do it that way. Perhaps on another tape, another time.
TG:Let me return to your Gallaudet days. Some people are curious about technology during your teaching years there – what was technology like at Gallaudet with no pagers, different computers, and so on? Share about technology during your teaching years.
JJ:The technology of teaching was blackboard and chalk. During the 1960s, Gallaudet received an IBM 1620 computer as a grant from NSF, I think, or as a donation from IBM. I ran that and it grew into the computers of Gallaudet today. During the 1965 Games, we had a new technology called “electro writer.” That was an interesting and strange looking machine. It was a small box with paper across the top, with a pen and arms on top, attached to a telephone line. There was another machine on the other end of the line and you’d use them to communicate by moving the pen and arms, which would be copied on the other end... a very crude TTY. It was often hard to read on the other end, no matter how good the handwriting, but that depended on the telephone line’s strength. We used that to transmit information from the timers to the scoreboard in track. The scoreboard was manual, with the letters inserted by hand as well as the times, all across the board. That was the new, amazing technology – we could communicate by telephone! That was pretty much it until the PC came along.
TG:You were also the director of the computer department in 1961? How did teaching lead to that? JJ: I did both. I taught Algebra and I ran the computer, but remember it was just one computer, a machine with very limited capabilities. Input was an electronic typewriter, with punch-paper tape. We later upgraded to a more sophisticated punch card for input. From there, we grew into a bigger computer, the IBM 360, and that was when we began using it for student grades, grade reports, schedules, and so on. That quickly grew to begin involving the business office for payroll, but they preferred to keep that separate. That was probably wise. That would have been a big thing because you don’t want to fool around with people’s paychecks!
TG:Some people are curious about your experiences as a student in the 1940s and as a staff in the 1960s. How did you see changes in the culture on campus during those times?
JJ:What do you mean by the cultural changes?
TG:Did the culture change from the inclusivity in the 1940s or did that remain the same? Any changes?
JJ:Very slowly... I would say that – no, I don’t want to get involved in this. Let me think and see if I can find the right words for this. I guess I can’t find the right words for this so I prefer to pass.
TG:As a student in the 1940s, what was a significant moment for you as a student at Gallaudet?
JJ:Significant...
TG:In the 1960s, as an employee, do you have any significant moments?
JJ:Probably two significant moments, but they weren’t really related to being a Gallaudet employee; they were more related to ICSD and deaf sports. First, when we won the hosting responsibilities for the 1965 Games, I sent a letter to President Kennedy, asking him to be the patron of the Games. He accepted and invited us to the White House. That was a story in itself! Do you want that? During the summertime, I worked as a human guinea pig for the US Navy in Pensacola, Florida. They were doing experiments on motion sickness, weightlessness, and that sort of thing. So, I was there in Florida and I got a call from Gallaudet – from Dick Phillips, the Dean of Students – informing me that the White House called, wanting me and some other individuals to be in the Oval Office tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. I was stunned, I’m in Florida! Fortunately, the person who called for me was the assistant to the Navy Captain in charge of the experiments, and he informed the Captain. In the Navy, the Captain is one rank below the Admiral, so he has quite a high rank. I was discussing with him about how I’d get to Washington DC by tomorrow morning, and it was the afternoon now. He silenced me and said he would make a few calls. He got me on a military flight to Washington DC and then called Dick Phillips to stop by where I live and pick up my suit, nice shoes, tie, and the works since I didn’t have those with me in Florida. I arrived to Washington and took a cab to Gallaudet and entered HMB. This was at 7, 6 a.m. - no, it was 3 or 4 a.m. since that was when the military flight arrived. I entered HMB, the only open building I could find, and used my work key to enter Phillips’ office and crashed on a row of chairs there. His secretary came in later and was startled to find me there, a strange body lying there. Luckily, she recognized me, and Phillips later arrived. We got dressed and left for the White House. Dick Phillips was one of the people who attended, as well as Tom Berg, Leon Auerbach, and a couple athletes. We entered the Oval Office and a congressman was there, Homer Thornberry. There’s a building at Gallaudet, the Mary Thornberry building – that was his mother. He could sign as his mother, and I’m not sure about his father, but his mother was deaf; so, he interpreted for us. Kennedy came in and he was such a pleasant person. After a few minutes of talking, it was as if he had known you all his life; he was that kind of person, a warm person. The only other president I met with that kind of influence was Bill Clinton, those two have that personality. We all chatted for about five minutes, took pictures, and shook hands. Unfortunately, two years later he was dead. It was really a tragedy. I then went home and caught a flight back to Florida and back to my experiments.
TG:Tell me more about those experiments!
JJ:Boring! They were mostly boring. We had to sit in a chair while revolving and with a doctor sitting in front of us with a camera taking pictures of our eyeballs to see whether they become disoriented. Mostly that, it was boring. The other experiments were more interesting. We flew in two-engine military planes that would fly in parabola curves; if the pilots were skilled and flew the top part of the parabola curve while keeping the plane flying in such a way, you would become weightless. With those two-engine military planes, that would last only about 10 to 15 seconds and then we’d go back down with all the increased G’s. Later, we moved on to four-engine jet planes which lasted longer, about 30 to 45 seconds, in that parabola curve. That again involved sitting in another stupid chair with a camera in our faces, taking pictures of our eyeballs. Once we were finished with that, however, we’d get out of the chair and another person would sit there and we would be free to float and play in the back of the plane.
TG:Could you explain why you were selected for that experiment?
JJ:Okay. The Navy was trying to discover the causes of motion sickness, which was also related with their space program because if astronauts had their helmets on and became stricken with motion sickness, they’d drown in their helmets. Not a very nice way to die! The Navy was working on finding solutions that so they needed to have studies with two groups of those who were normal and those who had no problems. They came to Gallaudet looking for individuals who had no functioning in their semicircular canals in their ears. They came seeking students; I happened to be eating lunch in the cafeteria and saw a group of men in Navy uniforms sitting there and I asked what was happening. One student informed me that they were looking for people with no balance and I said that was me. The student told me, “You’re too old” and walked away. I didn’t like that one bit- what did he mean, I was too old? I went over to the group of Navy men and asked if they were still seeking people, and they said yes. I told them, “I have no balance. You want to try me?” They said sure and said to come meet them after lunch. I showed up, and sure enough, they picked me. There were many others involved as well. They picked people like Hal Domich, who was a fellow Gallaudet teacher, Don Peterson, and some others. So that’s what they were doing, using us as a comparison group. I never had any motion sickness. One time when we were in the plane going up for that parabola curve, they had eight of us in addition to eight sailors taken from off the street. We were going to do those experiments for a while up in the air but as soon as we completed one parabola curve, all the hearing sailors became incredibly sick. The pilots had to drop fuel cells as they were flying since the plane was too heavy to land right away, and we then landed. We finished for that day and I was mad about losing my chance to play in the plane.
TG:Do you know what became of that experiment afterwards?
JJ:No, I don’t. I have some publications from that experiment but... I don’t know what happened with it afterwards. However, they obviously found a way to prevent motion sickness in astronauts, I think through intensive training. They were originally looking for a drug because it could be applied to wartime; often during landings, soldiers would be too sick to fight. They were looking for a drug but the only ones they found also caused deafness, so they clearly didn’t want to use those. I doubt they ever found a drug and instead learned to compensate for motion sickness through training.
TG:It’s amazing you will become 80 years old this upcoming summer! The past 80 years have been quite remarkable. I’m curious, how would you like people to remember you, what with your 80 years of amazing experience?
JJ:They will remember me the way they choose. I hope they will remember me as a person who tried to make deaf sports a success and as a place where all deaf people could get together as one rather than as exclusive groups, but as one body.
TG:Many thanks for taking the time to sit and have a nice chat with me. I think people know of you more than just deaf sports; you have a truly interesting life.
JJ:But deaf sports are my life.
TG:I’m sure. Thank you!
JJ:You’re welcome.